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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of them look on

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the sa

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my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states

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it's a worldwide phenomenon

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hi everyone and welcome to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy and joining me

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for this very special conversation i've

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got dan dan welcome

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hi it's great to be here yeah it's good

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to have dan on board for one of the

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interviews now

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in january i had the privilege of

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speaking to avila webb we talked his

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background

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his interest in ufos and struggles

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within the scientific community having a

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conversation about

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80 objects and the like at the time avi

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told myself and

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many many other interviewers he wants to

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get involved in studying the phenomenon

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scientifically but that requires serious

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people to get on board and of course

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funding i'm delighted to see that has

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since happened and this had resulted in

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the launch of the galileo project

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joining me now to discuss the details

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and answer your questions

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is avi loheb avi welcome back to the

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podcast thanks for having me

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no it's great to speak to you listen avi

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uh the announcement last week of the

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galileo project was met with a lot of

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positivity in the community

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it seems to be finally that serious

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scientific and academic research

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group we've been looking for can you

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tell us how the project came about

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yeah so um the report to congress came

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out a month ago

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about the uap unidentified aerial

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phenomenon

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and that report was quite remarkable in

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the sense that

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it claimed that some of these objects uh

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should be real because they were

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detected by multiple instruments

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infrared sensors optical cameras

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radar systems and many people seeing the

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same thing at the same time and

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that was a very significant statement

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because it admits the failure of the

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intelligence agencies in the us to

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identify what they are being paid for

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basically uh objects above the sky of

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the us

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and it's unusual for a government agency

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to admit a failure

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to congress um and at that point it

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looked

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intriguing enough to me

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that this subject should move away from

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the talking points of

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politicians national security advisers

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or military personnel to the realm of

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science

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and interestingly around the same time

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the head of nasa

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bill nelson said that he saw some of the

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classified data and you should

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understand that

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the data that was released to the public

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is just the tip of the iceberg there is

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much more data that is classified

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because it was obtained by classified

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sensors that the us

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does not want to of course expose

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to other nations and uh and bill nelson

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said that

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now is time for science scientists to to

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address

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the nature of these objects and i was

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thrilled to

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hear him say that so i approached people

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under him and i said

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i'm here to serve make your boss happy

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and they never got back to me so

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a week later um i get a note from the

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administrator at harvard

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um saying um you have a new research

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fund

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and i say what do you mean i have a new

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research fund i never had that before

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and she says yeah someone gave donated

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money for your research no strings

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attached and

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i said okay but then please tell me the

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name of that person because i want to

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thank that person

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you know and she said i don't know you

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know

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we have to go through the development

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office at harvard and i said

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okay well that's an elementary request

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if i get money

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i think it's completely legitimate for

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me to know who gave me that money and

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think that person i've never met that

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person

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he or she is giving me the money so

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please let me know how to approach that

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person

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and it took them a day to get back to me

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and then

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week later another person

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showed up a multi-billionaire showed up

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in my in the porch of my home and

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had questions about my book so these

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people simply

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either read my book or listen to the

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thousand interviews that i had over the

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past six months about the book

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the book was translated in 25 languages

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it became

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bestseller in many countries and so they

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i think were excited by the vision that

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i'm talking about and

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so then within a couple of weeks i

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received the

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1.75 million dollars in donations from

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people i've never met

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at which point i said i have enough

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money

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to move on

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with a scientific project and i

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assembled the team of exceptional

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scientists

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mostly astronomers and

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defined the galileo project and

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and that is a project aimed at

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assembling new data

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so we don't want to look at classified

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data by the government

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because that will tie our hands it will

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not allow us to be free

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we don't want to listen to eyewitness

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testimonies

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you know science is about

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reproducibility of results we want to

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look at the sky

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in most places the sky is not classified

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astronomers look at the sky all the time

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and we want to use telescopes that are

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connected

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to cameras that fit the video

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of the sky to computer systems that will

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identify

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objects of interest and then monitor

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them and it's very different from

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astronomers

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job you know when a bird flies above

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a telescope usually astronomers ignore

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it we will look at it

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so we are doing although we are using

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telescopes

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we are doing something different we are

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looking for something else objects

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that are flying and

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look weird they don't look like a plane

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they don't look like a drone they don't

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look like

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a bird and of course the way to figure

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it out

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is not to use an iphone and look at the

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sky

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because that has a very small aperture

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you can't really resolve you everything

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looks fuzzy

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so it doesn't you know a lot of people

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came to me and said

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why not rely on thousands of people that

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have iphones and ask them to send you

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the images i said i don't want those

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images

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because they will always be fuzzy that's

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of no help to me

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and i don't want past reports by

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eyewitnesses

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because you cannot use it in scientific

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evidence i mean in the courtroom

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you can rely on corroborating evidence

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of eyewitnesses

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to put a person in jail that's in the

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courtroom but it doesn't hold water

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in science you can't write a scientific

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paper saying

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this person told me that okay that's not

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sufficient evidence

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you have to use instruments that collect

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quantitative data

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and by quantitative i mean getting a

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high resolution

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image of a uap a megapixel image

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so to do that for example if you have an

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object the size of a person

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okay and suppose you want to get a

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megapixel image of that object at a

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distance of a kilometer

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for that you you you need to use a meter

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scale telescope this is just standard

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optics

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so that explains to you why an iphone

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cannot do the job an iphone has an

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aperture a camera that is a millimeter

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in size and that's a thousand times

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smaller than a meter

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so you have a resolution that is worse

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by a factor of a thousand

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so i don't want to use an iphone i want

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to use a one meter size

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telescope and by the way i checked

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online and

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there is a website that sells such

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telescopes

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it says add to the bag you just click on

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that

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and the cost is half a million dollars

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so apparently there are people willing

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to pay half a million dollars for a one

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minute

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telescope otherwise they won't be add to

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the bag

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item let me ask you have it because that

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means you can buy three of them and

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still have some change left over at the

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minute

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now uh those donors i take it they want

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to remain anonymous

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because you've not named them oh no no

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uh

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advisory

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board on the website of the galileo

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project uh and you know the announcement

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that we had

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on monday july 26th

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uh was not to announce a gift

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it was to announce a project okay and

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that's what

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uh we are all about trying to

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assemble scientific data that is open

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from telescopes that we are defining

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right now so we are deciding what kind

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of instruments we

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want to purchase off the shelf by the

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way these are not

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new instruments that we produce but

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things that you can buy and put them

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together

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and then test them and put them in

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locations various locations and

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you know we with the money we have we

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can get maybe 10 or

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several tens of telescope systems

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but what we really need is a factor of

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10 more

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so if we had the funding at a level

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above 10 million that would really

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help us if there's anyone out there

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yeah and if anyone's listening with that

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sort of revenue then then please do get

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in touch with avia and his group

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1.75 million is a lot of money to to

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many people

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it's obviously been enough to get the

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project started what can you begin to

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accomplish

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with 1.75 million dollars in funding

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well we can produce at least 10

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telescope systems

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each of which you know will uh provide

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us with

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a high resolution imaging of the sky

289
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basically a video of the sky where

290
00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:45,200
wherever it's located

291
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:47,040
and we have to decide where to put these

292
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,880
systems and the reason i said the

293
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,880
hundred telescopes are needed is

294
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,360
based on the rate by which report uap

295
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,880
reports came

296
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:57,600
uh you can get a sense of how frequently

297
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,800
they come along and

298
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,399
if you want to detect something in a

299
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:02,240
year time scale

300
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:05,120
you need 100 telescopes but then where

301
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:06,399
to put them

302
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:09,519
is a matter of debate

303
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,680
for example you can put them on mountain

304
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:13,040
tops that's where astronomical

305
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,160
observatories

306
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,800
are usually located simply because the

307
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:18,720
atmosphere is more dilute

308
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:20,720
up there and you don't have as much

309
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,160
blurring of the images

310
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:24,399
so you can look towards the horizon and

311
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:26,240
see a great distance

312
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,440
and then but we also want to sample

313
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:31,360
other locations so having more

314
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,959
telescopes has the other

315
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,200
added benefit that you can spread them

316
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:36,959
in many different locations so

317
00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:39,680
for example if you ap concentrate

318
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:40,399
cluster

319
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:43,760
in some preferred locations uh the more

320
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,120
locations you visit

321
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,800
the better chance you have of finding

322
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:48,640
them you mentioned

323
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:51,440
the classified data that obviously was

324
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:53,839
part of the uap task force report

325
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:56,399
have you or your group been privy to any

326
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,760
of that classified data

327
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,680
which would influence your decisions

328
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,200
going forward

329
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,440
no and in fact i don't want to see

330
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:05,519
anything classified because

331
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,959
then the government would tie my hands i

332
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:10,480
wouldn't be able to

333
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,600
freely speak about anything i do because

334
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,760
even subconsciously if i collect

335
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:17,760
assemble new data

336
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,959
there would be this risk that i speak

337
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,959
because i know something else you know

338
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,480
and uh i just

339
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:26,959
want to be free as a scientist i prefer

340
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:28,880
to deal with open data the public can

341
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,680
see it

342
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,440
and then the public can also analyze it

343
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:33,600
in a different way than our team will

344
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:35,920
so that's the beauty of science that

345
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:37,360
it's transparent

346
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:40,079
you share evidence-based knowledge and

347
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:40,880
what happens

348
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:43,279
right now or until the galileo project

349
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:44,639
was announced was

350
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,639
that you know there would be these

351
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,079
claims of something

352
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,639
some unusual objects and then the public

353
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:52,000
would speculate

354
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,839
and the scientific community would

355
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:55,839
ridicule and dismiss it

356
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,480
and then nobody would actually clear up

357
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,600
the fog

358
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,000
what is really going on and you know you

359
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:04,240
would you don't want to ask

360
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,200
politicians or military personnel to

361
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:08,880
explain what we see on the sky

362
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:11,040
it's just like asking a plumber to bake

363
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,240
you a cake

364
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,760
you know these people were not trained

365
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,600
the scientists

366
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:17,839
what you want to do is ask astronomers

367
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,710
so on the galileo project page there's a

368
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:26,000
this really cool link that

369
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:28,000
is called a research affiliate and i've

370
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:29,360
noticed over the past week there have

371
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,800
been a few names added there

372
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:32,480
i wonder if you might be able to talk

373
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,079
about some of those names and you know

374
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,000
what work you plan to do together

375
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,920
yeah so that was the amazing thing that

376
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:40,320
um well first of all that a few weeks

377
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:40,720
ago

378
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:43,199
a a number of individuals approached me

379
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:44,720
and and gave me this

380
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,320
sum of money for 1.75 million dollars

381
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:50,800
and then after the project was announced

382
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,440
i got

383
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,360
thousands of emails from people that

384
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:55,519
want to get involved then

385
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:58,560
you see some of them as affiliates and

386
00:14:02,710 --> 00:13:59,680
then

387
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:02,720
it basically underscores what i was

388
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,600
trying to say for six months now in a

389
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:07,519
thousand interviews which is

390
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,639
that scientists should not reject or

391
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:12,160
ridicule this subject

392
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,160
because the public is very interested

393
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,480
and it's an opportunity

394
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:19,680
to attract funds to science

395
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:22,720
and to attract young people

396
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:26,399
talented people to science and

397
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:29,360
it's a missed opportunity to say we know

398
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,040
the answer in advance we don't need to

399
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,720
look at the sky

400
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:34,720
it's similar to what the philosophers

401
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,760
said

402
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,079
during the days of galileo they did not

403
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:39,680
want to look through the telescope of

404
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,720
galileo and they

405
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:42,720
they knew that the sun moves around the

406
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:45,120
earth and they put galileo in house

407
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,320
arrest

408
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,320
today galileo would have been cancelled

409
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:50,399
on social media

410
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,160
so we don't want to repeat that mistake

411
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,000
we want to collect data and what's the

412
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:58,240
worst thing that can happen

413
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:02,000
that out of private donations my group

414
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,279
ends up collecting data and finding

415
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:07,680
that these uap are some natural

416
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:10,800
phenomena that we haven't anticipated

417
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:14,079
how bad could it be i mean so we

418
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:16,560
explain something that other people

419
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:18,800
speculated about in the past

420
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,920
and we figure it out why should anyone

421
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,240
have a problem with that

422
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:26,639
except for the same reason that

423
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:29,600
philosophers had a problem with galileo

424
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:33,199
many centuries ago because

425
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,320
it bothers them to look for

426
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,880
the evidence they think they know the

427
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,120
answer before checking the evidence

428
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,800
and that's unfortunate because i would

429
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:44,160
think that we learned the lesson

430
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,440
we are in the 21st century right we say

431
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:49,600
that science leads the way

432
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:52,639
yet scientists behave just like the

433
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:54,079
philosophers during the days of

434
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:56,320
so how is that possible how did we get

435
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,279
to that point

436
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:59,440
it's completely unclear to me i think

437
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:01,040
this subject should be part of the

438
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:01,920
mainstream

439
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:05,199
why should we search for dark matter

440
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,920
of specific types you know it's a matter

441
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,600
of curiosity we don't know what most of

442
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:11,120
the matter in the universe is

443
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,079
okay so then we say okay maybe maybe

444
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:15,680
it's weekly interacting massive

445
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,320
particles

446
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,079
okay we don't know that for sure we're

447
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,320
searching in the dark so then we invest

448
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:22,720
hundreds of millions of dollars you know

449
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,279
40 years of search

450
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:27,600
that produced nothing we just have

451
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:28,880
limits

452
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:33,360
and i asked once an experimentalist

453
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,199
how long will you continue to search you

454
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:37,279
haven't found it you put limits

455
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,720
and he said as long as i'm funded

456
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,880
so i'm saying okay that's legitimate

457
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:44,720
that's part of the mainstream if you ask

458
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,320
any astronomer

459
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,959
he or she will tell you of course we

460
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,639
need to search for dark matter it makes

461
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,880
a lot of sense

462
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,959
then you tell them it's a search in the

463
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:56,079
dark right

464
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,199
so why not search also for technological

465
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:01,440
debris that was left behind by some

466
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,480
civilizations

467
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,199
that existed before us because we know

468
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:07,120
that half of the sun-like stars

469
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,360
had a planet the size of the earth

470
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,959
roughly the same separation

471
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,120
we know that we exist so we're just

472
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:15,439
looking for things like us

473
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,439
in our past why not

474
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:21,600
they would tell you because it's a

475
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:22,880
speculation

476
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:26,160
because we have no extraordinary

477
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:27,839
evidence for that

478
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:30,880
we should ban any discussion on that

479
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:33,760
and i say why didn't you ban ban any

480
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:35,440
discussion on weekly interacting massive

481
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:36,240
particles

482
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,720
when there was no extraordinary evidence

483
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,400
that weakly interacting massive

484
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,080
particles are the dark matter

485
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:43,919
of course you might say there is dark

486
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,440
matter we know it exists

487
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,840
yes but not necessarily weekly

488
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,120
interacting massive particles

489
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,200
yet you invested hundreds of millions of

490
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:54,320
dollars in that particular direction

491
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:57,919
okay spent decades searching for it

492
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,919
and haven't found it this particular

493
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,200
particle

494
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,840
so i have nothing against that it could

495
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,200
be part of the mainstream

496
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,120
and by the way if the dark matter is

497
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,120
weakly interacting massive particles

498
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,600
it will have very little impact on our

499
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,280
daily lives

500
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:15,600
right it will not appear in the news

501
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:16,960
every day afterwards

502
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,760
if we find it it will be a nobel prize

503
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,880
it will give

504
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,960
some recognition to the scientists that

505
00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:24,240
find it

506
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:26,840
but it will not have a major impact on

507
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,240
society

508
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:30,480
but if we find a relic of another

509
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,039
civilization that is smarter than we are

510
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,200
that would have a huge impact on society

511
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:36,880
so how dare we

512
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,320
ignore that question ridicule it

513
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:43,280
push it to the side and not invest any

514
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:44,160
funds

515
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,679
in the search because we need

516
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:47,360
extraordinary evidence before we will

517
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:48,160
even

518
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:51,679
contemplate the legitimacy of discussing

519
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:58,549
in the 21st century

520
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:01,120
when you look at twitter you see

521
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,080
scientists

522
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:05,120
ridiculing this subject how is that

523
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,559
possible i mean i don't know the answer

524
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:11,840
maybe you know it it reminds me of um

525
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:14,080
the work with black holes and exoplanets

526
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,760
you know many many years ago people are

527
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:17,280
theorized about these we just gave

528
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,799
syracuse a nobel prize um for theorizing

529
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:22,480
about it and we didn't have a goddamn

530
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,320
photo of the thing and

531
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:26,160
it lit the world that when we released

532
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,919
the photo of the black hole so just

533
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:29,600
imagine what a photo of an

534
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:32,080
extraterrestrial craft would do yeah so

535
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:33,520
i actually

536
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:36,160
wrote the first paper that forecast that

537
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,080
the first image

538
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,160
should be taken of m87 which is the

539
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,320
image of the black hole that we now have

540
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,480
i wrote the first paper about 12 years

541
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:46,080
ago about that

542
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,840
when nobody discussed necessarily

543
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,000
looking at m87 for that photo

544
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,280
okay and i remember back then it was not

545
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:55,600
a very popular subject

546
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:57,280
and you know i worked on many such

547
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,720
things along the

548
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:01,039
years that i've been practicing

549
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:02,159
astronomy and i

550
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,840
realized that indeed as you say many

551
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,320
times

552
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:09,200
scientists just dismiss things that

553
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:10,640
become very fashionable

554
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:13,280
eventually that become mainstream and

555
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:15,039
extra planets is a good example when i

556
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,240
was a postdoc i just

557
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:19,120
entered astrophysics people were saying

558
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:20,159
oh maybe

559
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:22,240
stars do not have planets at all you

560
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:23,679
know we don't know that therefore

561
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:26,400
don't speak about it and there was a

562
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:30,799
paper written in 1952

563
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,080
okay by uh an astronomer otto struve

564
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:36,720
who said well if there happens to be a

565
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,600
planet like jupiter close to a star

566
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,520
we can actually detect the effect that

567
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,200
it has on the star it will pull it back

568
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,240
and forth in a measurable way

569
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,159
or it will block the light from the star

570
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:50,559
when it passes in front of it

571
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,360
in a measurable way and that paper was

572
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:54,720
ignored

573
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:57,840
for four decades by

574
00:21:02,070 --> 00:21:00,640
time allocation committees and i know

575
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:02,080
from observers that were

576
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:03,679
you know that were practicing at that

577
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,679
time that they

578
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,840
made proposals for using telescope time

579
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:09,280
to look for such things

580
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:11,520
and these proposals were denied because

581
00:21:15,909 --> 00:21:13,760
the astronomers were saying

582
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:15,919
we know why jupiter is so far from the

583
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:17,039
sun

584
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,960
having a jupiter close to a star makes

585
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,960
no sense therefore we should not search

586
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:21,919
for it

587
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,520
and then in 1995 the first

588
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,159
hot jupiter around the sun-like star was

589
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,919
discovered and the nobel prize a few

590
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:32,400
years ago was given

591
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:36,159
to uh quilos and mayor

592
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:39,280
and you ask yourself okay well nothing

593
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:40,880
bad really happened you know it just

594
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:41,360
took

595
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,559
some decades of delay my point is for

596
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:46,400
every baby that was born

597
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:49,200
barely you know after a long time there

598
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:51,120
must be a lot of babies that were never

599
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:52,240
born

600
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:53,679
because the scientific community

601
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:55,919
continued to ridicule the subject

602
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:59,520
for decades even now and one such baby

603
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,400
may be

604
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:01,919
technological relics of other

605
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,320
civilizations and it's not being born

606
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,960
because nobody puts funds to the search

607
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,400
and then everyone says there is no

608
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,080
extraordinary evidence therefore we

609
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,240
shouldn't put any funds to the search

610
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,080
which is a self-fulfilling prophecy i

611
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:15,919
was asked in a forum

612
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,120
how long can you know our civilization

613
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:22,080
remain ignorant about the existence of

614
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:23,760
others out there

615
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,120
and my answer was forever you know

616
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,960
if we decide not to look through our

617
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:30,960
windows and claim that we have no

618
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,600
neighbors

619
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:33,120
and that we are the smartest in the

620
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:34,880
universe

621
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,520
we will not find the neighbors but that

622
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,919
doesn't mean that they are not there

623
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:41,679
they will not go away just because we

624
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:44,080
are not looking through our windows

625
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,840
avi i want to talk about those windows

626
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:47,360
and what we're looking at now as a

627
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,320
complete layman

628
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:50,320
to astronomy and astrophysics and

629
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,760
everything that entails

630
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:53,520
when i think telescope i think of

631
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,960
looking up at the sky and looking at the

632
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:56,080
stars

633
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:57,919
these telescopes you're looking at

634
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:59,760
buying adding to your bag and checking

635
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:01,120
out hopefully

636
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,640
are they going to be able to see an

637
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,120
object for example like omamura

638
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:07,280
would they be able to see that with any

639
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:08,559
degree of clarity

640
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,960
or is that too far away and to the

641
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:12,080
extreme

642
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:14,559
how close up could we see objects for

643
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,440
example

644
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,840
if one of your telescopes was placed in

645
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,400
or around the catalina islands area

646
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:22,960
and there happened to be some uh

647
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:25,360
movement or some you know activity going

648
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:25,840
on

649
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:28,480
involving uaps could you see those up

650
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,080
close as well

651
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:33,120
yeah so what we can see with telescopes

652
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:34,480
on the ground

653
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,679
uh are only objects that are within the

654
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:38,960
earth atmosphere

655
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:42,000
we can resolve them only those uh

656
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:43,919
an object like omoamoa which is roughly

657
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:46,000
the size of a football field

658
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,679
at a distance that is a fraction of the

659
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,279
distance to the sun

660
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:51,360
cannot be resolved with any teles even

661
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:54,240
the biggest telescopes we have on earth

662
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:57,120
so what we need to do there is when we

663
00:24:00,549 --> 00:23:58,640
identify

664
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:00,559
an interstellar object an object that

665
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,279
came from outside the solar system

666
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:05,360
that looks weird in the sense that it

667
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:06,880
doesn't look like a comet

668
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,880
or an asteroid the way um was

669
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:12,720
because there was no cometary tail and

670
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,919
it was pushed

671
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:16,080
away from the sun something that looks

672
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:17,120
weird

673
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:19,600
and if we see it a year in advance

674
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:20,720
before it approaches

675
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:23,360
us we can send the spacecraft equipped

676
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:24,400
with the camera

677
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:26,960
that will intercept its trajectory and

678
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:29,039
take a close-up photograph

679
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:33,360
okay and the osiris-rex is a mission

680
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,679
that they aimed to get to the asteroid

681
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,799
benue

682
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,640
and it landed on it and it took a

683
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:40,000
close-up photograph and

684
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,440
if you look at the photograph it's clear

685
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,200
that this is a rock

686
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:46,320
and it actually took a sample from bennu

687
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:50,880
that it will bring back to earth in 2023

688
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,840
so here is an example of a space mission

689
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:57,440
not only taking a photograph but

690
00:25:02,549 --> 00:24:59,600
actually landing on an object

691
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:02,559
so just imagine doing the same with an

692
00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,240
artificial object

693
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:06,480
we could import the technology back to

694
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,679
earth

695
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,760
so that's what we need to do in space

696
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:11,520
for intestinal objects

697
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,360
we need to intercept their trajectory

698
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:16,080
and the vera rubin observatory will come

699
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:17,520
online in two years

700
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:20,320
uh will have much more sensitivity than

701
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:21,679
the pan stars

702
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:24,400
observatory in hawaii that detected the

703
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:25,840
umuamua

704
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:28,880
and then with vera rubin we might get

705
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,080
perhaps an object like that every month

706
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,000
so there would be many opportunities to

707
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:36,400
follow up and

708
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:39,120
part of the galileo project is to

709
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:39,760
develop

710
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:43,039
software that will be used um on the

711
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,640
data coming from the vera rubin

712
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,840
observatory

713
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:48,320
such that we can identify those

714
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:49,760
interstellar objects that look

715
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:53,200
weird and then design a space mission

716
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,159
that will

717
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,400
take a close-up photograph of them so we

718
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:58,000
are definitely interested in every

719
00:26:02,710 --> 00:25:58,799
object

720
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:02,720
coming close to earth that looks unusual

721
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:04,720
and we want to get a high resolution

722
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:05,919
image of it

723
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,039
and of course as you said as you hinted

724
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:11,200
the way to look at objects in our

725
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,400
atmosphere

726
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,960
is to use telescopes on the ground but

727
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,600
for

728
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:17,520
objects that are far away we need to

729
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,600
send the spacecraft

730
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:22,320
to get a good image of them one such

731
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:24,640
group that you have um started a

732
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:25,919
relationship with would be

733
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:28,960
uapx which is gary voorhees uh

734
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,440
kevin day and others how does how do

735
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:33,039
those relationships come about and what

736
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:34,480
are your plans to work with them going

737
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:35,760
forward

738
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,159
right so there are various organizations

739
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,320
that existed in the past

740
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:43,200
and i should clarify that the galileo

741
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,880
project is different

742
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,640
because it's the first time that you

743
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:48,559
have a group

744
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:51,600
of just scientists

745
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:55,279
astronomers mostly coming together

746
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:57,440
and designing a set of instruments that

747
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,120
they will build

748
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:01,600
and they will put in place and they will

749
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:02,640
test

750
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:06,000
and they will do the data assembly

751
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:10,320
and analysis just like in a scientific

752
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:14,720
experiment now all past groups that

753
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:17,120
involve for example i mean one that you

754
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:18,559
mentioned uapx but

755
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,880
there are others all of them were

756
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:21,919
partnering

757
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:24,480
with scientists they were composed let's

758
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,279
say of

759
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,440
military personnel that witnessed some

760
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,440
uap or

761
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:31,679
they want to engage the public you know

762
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:32,880
there is

763
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:36,159
another one called sky hub that wants to

764
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:37,200
distribute

765
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:41,440
instruments in people's backyard

766
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,720
i don't we don't want to do that because

767
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,640
we want to well first of all we don't

768
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,320
have enough instruments to distribute we

769
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,840
want to have full control over the

770
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:51,360
instruments it's not a matter of the

771
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:53,120
public doing whatever they want in the

772
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:54,320
backyard

773
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:55,760
it you know that's the way you do

774
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,000
science you have to have

775
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,840
a con you have to design your

776
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,200
experimental setup

777
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:03,440
and then have full control over it and

778
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,039
collect the data yourself

779
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:07,840
the scientists should do it so we are

780
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,240
not

781
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:11,039
partnering with scientists we are the

782
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:11,760
scientists

783
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,640
doing it so we don't need to go to other

784
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:16,880
scientists and ask to partner with them

785
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,240
like uapx is doing uapx is partnering

786
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,640
we don't partner we are the scientists

787
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,000
we are doing it

788
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:26,480
then with the public of course if we

789
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,440
have data

790
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,840
the public is welcome to analyze the

791
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:31,760
data that we will make public

792
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,840
you know we we can allow other people to

793
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:35,600
look at the data and look for things we

794
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:36,720
haven't noticed

795
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:40,080
that's perfectly fine but we will

796
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,279
collect the data

797
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:43,120
because it's a scientific experiment

798
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,960
just like you don't let the public get

799
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,360
into your laboratory you know if you

800
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:49,200
have a laboratory doing an experiment

801
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,679
scientific experiment you don't just

802
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,440
open the door and say anyone from the

803
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:55,279
street come in and do whatever you want

804
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:56,320
with the instruments

805
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:59,279
that will not allow you to monitor

806
00:29:02,070 --> 00:28:59,760
what's

807
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:02,080
happening with your instrument you don't

808
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,360
ask people to come with their cell

809
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,200
phones and look at your instruments

810
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:07,440
and do you know and put their cell

811
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,480
phones on your ins

812
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,799
like this is not the way science is done

813
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:12,960
so this is the first time the galileo

814
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,520
project

815
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:16,480
by which professional scientists are

816
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:17,919
taking

817
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,320
the role of leading the way

818
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,640
okay and that has to be made clear

819
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:26,960
because it implies two things

820
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:30,799
one that the project will do

821
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:34,080
the data assembly uh you know the data

822
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:35,440
collection

823
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,960
and do a scientific analysis of the data

824
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,320
and the data will be based on

825
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:43,520
instruments that the project team

826
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:46,559
designs and puts in place

827
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:49,039
and the second is there is a lot of

828
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:49,840
discussion

829
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:51,760
out there by people that are not

830
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:53,679
scientists well maybe there are

831
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:54,640
wormholes

832
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:57,840
maybe there are space-time engines all

833
00:30:03,590 --> 00:29:59,200
kinds of

834
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:03,600
ideas that have no foundation

835
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,039
in modern science and i should remind

836
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:09,200
everyone that physics the standard model

837
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:10,320
of physics

838
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:12,960
is tested over and over again in

839
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:15,279
numerous experiments

840
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,679
it's not something that you can just

841
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:19,600
have a glass of wine and say oh well

842
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,039
maybe there is a wormhole

843
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:24,240
doing this and that you can't do that

844
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,520
because we know what physics is about

845
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,760
you know just look at the textbooks you

846
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:31,520
know there are laws of physics that are

847
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:32,720
refined

848
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,720
and very well tested and if there is a

849
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:36,320
tiny deviation

850
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:39,440
for example if the magnetic moment of

851
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,720
the muon

852
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:43,120
which is a particle that doesn't really

853
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,840
affect

854
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:45,919
anything in our daily life if that

855
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:48,960
magnetic moment deviates by a little bit

856
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:51,760
from what very complicated theoretical

857
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,120
calculations

858
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:55,760
on computers are predicting with

859
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:56,960
uncertainties

860
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:59,679
so it's even the deviation is even not

861
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,480
obvious

862
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,480
because the uncertainties are comparable

863
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:04,320
to the deviation that was measured in

864
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:05,360
fermilab in some

865
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:08,000
laboratory even that by itself gets the

866
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:09,360
headlines

867
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:11,519
and could be worth a nobel prize okay

868
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:12,960
just to give you a sense

869
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:15,360
so then someone's saying oh maybe it's a

870
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,480
wormhole of time

871
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,320
you know space-time engine that is

872
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,919
completely irresponsible you can't do

873
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:20,799
that

874
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,640
then our understanding of the universe

875
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,080
could have been modified you know

876
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:30,640
if you know something like that you will

877
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:31,760
get the nobel prize

878
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:35,519
over and over and over and over again

879
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,840
okay so you can't just say it lightly i

880
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:39,200
mean of course you can say it

881
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,399
just like you can say that you are

882
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,880
napoleon you know many people could say

883
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:44,399
that they are napoleon

884
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,159
they can say whatever they want the

885
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:47,600
question is whether there is evidence

886
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,559
for that

887
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:50,720
and the galileo project of course will

888
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,440
assemble data and we will use

889
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:55,840
the tools of science what we know about

890
00:32:02,149 --> 00:31:58,640
physics to explain what we see

891
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:02,159
if we fail if it looks like the laws of

892
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,080
physics cannot account

893
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:07,440
for the very detailed information that

894
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:08,880
we assemble

895
00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,399
then maybe there would be room to

896
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:14,799
consider the possibility that something

897
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:15,440
else is

898
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:18,720
uh at work but we

899
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,279
we are not there you know and you can't

900
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,559
you can't just say oh

901
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:24,399
let's break the laws of physics just in

902
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,200
order to explain some fuzzy images

903
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,360
well hopefully down the line you do get

904
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:31,600
those nobel prizes over and over again

905
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,159
for

906
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,840
finding things that you cannot explain

907
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:34,799
that you're finding with these

908
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:36,559
telescopes and they pay themselves back

909
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,679
over and over

910
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:39,840
but i should say that would be of much

911
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,840
more significance because it would mean

912
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:43,600
that we don't understand the universe

913
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,760
not just that there is a smarter kid on

914
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:47,039
the block that

915
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,399
something in our fundamental

916
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:50,799
understanding of the universe at large

917
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,399
was you know missing

918
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:56,080
i always like to think and this is an

919
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,240
extreme layman's terms that

920
00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:00,559
one day we're going to understand that

921
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,760
we do understand it

922
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:04,000
but it's very very basic even our

923
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,960
highest level

924
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,200
scientists and mathematicians we find

925
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,960
another civilization you know one of

926
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,000
your telescopes picks

927
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:12,480
up something that we go ah we were kind

928
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,480
of on the right lines but here's more to

929
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,320
it and that would be my hope

930
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:18,000
and i'm sure as a scientist like you've

931
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:19,840
talked about as well that would be

932
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,919
your hope you want to find out new and

933
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:23,279
you want to uncover

934
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,880
things you can explore and that's the

935
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:26,720
whole the whole purpose of science isn't

936
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,600
it to that new exploration

937
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,279
evidence you see that's my point my

938
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,039
fundamental point is

939
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,760
we need better evidence we before we

940
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:38,240
jump into those conclusions about

941
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:40,960
modifications of physics absolutely now

942
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,399
listen we had a lot of listener

943
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:44,000
questions and in the time we've got left

944
00:33:47,669 --> 00:33:45,760
i want to get to some of those

945
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,679
quite a few of them ave were based

946
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,279
around one point

947
00:33:52,710 --> 00:33:51,360
and katie and barry both sent in

948
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,720
questions very similar

949
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,640
they want to know how you are planning

950
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:56,880
on looking at specific areas

951
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:59,760
in our atmosphere uh such as hot spots

952
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:00,080
like

953
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:02,960
guadalupe catalina islands high magnetic

954
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:03,919
fields

955
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,919
how are you going to pick and choose

956
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:07,039
where you point these

957
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,280
initial telescopes right that's an

958
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:11,200
excellent question we are discussing it

959
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:12,960
and of course the more telescopes we

960
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:13,679
have

961
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,399
the better we can sample many different

962
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:17,760
locations

963
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:21,520
in terms of visibility

964
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,359
are mountain tops that's why

965
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:25,599
astronomical observatories are

966
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:28,320
on mountain tops because the atmosphere

967
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:29,760
is more dilute

968
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,040
and blurring of images is less severe

969
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,119
so you can see a large distance into the

970
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:36,960
horizon and

971
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,320
but it doesn't mean that that's the only

972
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:42,720
type of locations that that we want to

973
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:44,000
be at and

974
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,800
um it all depends on how much funding we

975
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:48,720
have as to how many telescopes we will

976
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:49,520
have

977
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:52,000
and how many locations we can sample but

978
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,200
this is a very important question

979
00:34:58,950 --> 00:34:56,879
when you're coming at this from such a

980
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:58,960
pure scientific point of view

981
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,000
is there going to be any weight or

982
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:04,400
gravitas given to again i'll use the

983
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,040
area of

984
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:07,920
catalina off the coast of california

985
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,040
where there have been

986
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,040
numerous reported incidents i know

987
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,880
there's a heavy military presence in

988
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:14,240
those areas too

989
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,240
but would that be something that would

990
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:18,240
sway you towards looking at one of those

991
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:19,200
areas

992
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:21,119
yeah so the fundamental question there

993
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,560
is uh

994
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:24,560
are there more reports coming from such

995
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:26,400
areas just because

996
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,680
they're being patrolled more often uh

997
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:31,839
you know the military patrols its own

998
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:33,119
facilities

999
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,839
um and then the only way to find out is

1000
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,200
to have telescopes

1001
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:40,160
in many different locations and indeed

1002
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,640
sample

1003
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:42,640
also the location that you mentioned we

1004
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,320
don't want to interfere

1005
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:47,200
with any military activity so uh there

1006
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:48,880
will be some limitations of

1007
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:51,119
you know some areas where we cannot

1008
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:53,119
really monitor the sky and

1009
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,720
but we will do whatever is allowed

1010
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,880
back here had a question for you he is

1011
00:36:02,390 --> 00:35:59,760
curious

1012
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,400
as to your opinion avi on if the stigma

1013
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:03,839
regarding ufos

1014
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,400
has changed at all within your community

1015
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:08,320
given the increased media attention

1016
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,160
credible testimony but also the

1017
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:12,079
announcement of the project how has that

1018
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:14,079
been in the last week or so

1019
00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:17,119
in the last week um i think people are

1020
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,040
looking for new excuses of why to

1021
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:21,839
dismiss it still

1022
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,119
so you know i heard statements like

1023
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:30,240
the rich are getting richer uh

1024
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:33,280
i'm not rich you know and i didn't have

1025
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:33,760
those

1026
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:38,240
getting richer because i had funds

1027
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:39,040
before

1028
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:42,400
it's because the public agrees with the

1029
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,280
vision

1030
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,560
of collecting evidence on objects we

1031
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,079
don't understand

1032
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:50,079
you know it reminds me of the exchange i

1033
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:51,200
had with my

1034
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:54,640
publicist in the uk so when the book

1035
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,599
became a bestseller um the publicist

1036
00:37:02,470 --> 00:36:59,280
said

1037
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,480
great job avi you are make you know

1038
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:04,800
you're doing great interviews and

1039
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,400
it looks like the book is selling very

1040
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:09,599
well so i corrected him i said

1041
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:12,240
my purpose is not to sell the book you

1042
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,839
have to unders i mean of course you're a

1043
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:15,599
publicist you wanted to sell but

1044
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,560
that's not my purpose i want to convey a

1045
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:19,520
message

1046
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,400
and if the public would not agree with

1047
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:24,000
my message

1048
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:25,839
i wouldn't change the message the book

1049
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:28,640
would not sell you would not be happy

1050
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:31,040
but i will not change my message just to

1051
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:31,920
make

1052
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,680
you happy and so he said sorry i didn't

1053
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,359
really mean that

1054
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,760
but it's exactly that misconception that

1055
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,040
a lot of people

1056
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:43,839
think that the resonance between my

1057
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:45,440
message and the public

1058
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:49,280
is tailored so that i will get the

1059
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,560
benefit

1060
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:53,280
that's not at all the point in fact it's

1061
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:54,640
exactly the opposite that

1062
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,520
the public supports that vision and

1063
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:59,440
that's why i'm advocating for it because

1064
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,160
i think

1065
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,400
the public supports science and

1066
00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:04,160
therefore science should attend to the

1067
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:05,359
public's interest

1068
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:08,240
that's what i'm doing now i'm gonna uh

1069
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:09,359
read another question

1070
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:11,599
uh from e-wood and he talks about

1071
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:13,280
another member of the public

1072
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,680
mick west you may have heard of him um

1073
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:17,599
he recently put out a tweet after the

1074
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,160
announcement

1075
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:20,960
of the project about good uap data

1076
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:23,040
needing to have at least three points of

1077
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:23,839
vantage

1078
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:25,760
with a known distance between the camera

1079
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:27,680
sensors to a good possibility of

1080
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:29,280
triangulation

1081
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:30,960
are you considering all that in your

1082
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,440
approach and while we're on the subject

1083
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:36,320
would you consider having a a pseudo

1084
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,079
debunker like mick west

1085
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:40,640
give advice on the data itself well

1086
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:41,839
first i should say i

1087
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:45,040
participated in the podcast with him

1088
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:46,720
actually that podcast was coordinated

1089
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,880
without telling me that he will be on it

1090
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,640
i'm not sure why but suddenly he

1091
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,320
appeared out of the blue

1092
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,400
and i had a discussion he seemed quite

1093
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:55,599
reasonable but

1094
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:58,560
the point is he's not a scientist i want

1095
00:39:02,069 --> 00:38:59,119
the team

1096
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:02,079
to be of scientist now of course he gets

1097
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,800
a lot of

1098
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:05,359
attention because he debunks and a lot

1099
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:06,880
of people want these things to be

1100
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:08,800
debunked

1101
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,880
we don't have that agenda of debunking

1102
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,079
or not debunking

1103
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:14,240
we we just want to get to let the

1104
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:16,079
evidence guide us

1105
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:19,680
and you know i told my team the galileo

1106
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:20,560
team

1107
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,440
keep your eyes on the ball not on the

1108
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:24,960
audience

1109
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:29,119
and i think mick if you if you

1110
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:31,599
wanted to to define him you would say he

1111
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,320
keeps his eyes on the on his audience

1112
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,800
you know and now what do i mean by keep

1113
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,320
your eyes on the ball that if you play

1114
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:39,599
basketball

1115
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:42,640
you want your team members to be the

1116
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:43,119
best

1117
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,359
possible way

1118
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,440
you don't want your team member to be

1119
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:50,960
someone looking at the audience and

1120
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:51,760
making the whole

1121
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,240
audience cheer that's not the purpose of

1122
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:56,400
the of the game

1123
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:58,560
so if i'm selecting members of my

1124
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,119
research team

1125
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,160
i will not select a cheerleader

1126
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:07,280
i will select the best basketball player

1127
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,000
that i can think of

1128
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,720
to be in the team and so that's why i

1129
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:14,640
selected scientists

1130
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:17,359
and so asking me whether i would like to

1131
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,000
make

1132
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:20,160
the crowd cheer by selecting mick west

1133
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,319
that debunks until we show him

1134
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:24,480
that's not really my purpose my purpose

1135
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:27,200
is to get the ball

1136
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:35,589
getting the best possible evidence which

1137
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:36,480
means getting

1138
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:40,400
the best scientists

1139
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:52,710
so i just wanted to kind of ask um

1140
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,000
there's going to be people listening to

1141
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,880
this who are inspired by you kind of

1142
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:58,240
skating to where the puck's going to be

1143
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:59,440
or where the ball is going to be to

1144
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:00,880
stick with your analogy

1145
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,760
um and i just wanted to know what those

1146
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:04,800
people could do

1147
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:07,040
to end up working with you or on

1148
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,800
something like project galileo or

1149
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:10,560
project galileo itself you know

1150
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:13,280
andy's just had a new baby and i think

1151
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:13,760
maybe

1152
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,920
colleague of yours

1153
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,079
right so there are various ways to

1154
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,400
support the project one is of course

1155
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:24,000
uh financially we are trying to

1156
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,560
establish a mechanism for crowdfunding

1157
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,800
uh but if anyone is interested in

1158
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,400
contributing more than fifty

1159
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,560
thousand dollars that there is a channel

1160
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,079
already

1161
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,160
in existence for that and they just need

1162
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:38,000
to contact me by email

1163
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:41,200
but separate from that there is the help

1164
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:42,480
in terms of

1165
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,240
support you know

1166
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:49,440
on in terms of public outreach in terms

1167
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,000
of

1168
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,119
uh communicating on social media because

1169
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:55,200
you know we just can't do everything

1170
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:58,640
and then i would say that anyone that

1171
00:42:01,829 --> 00:41:59,040
feels

1172
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:01,839
enthusiastic about the project who

1173
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:02,560
either write

1174
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,079
me or send an email to the project

1175
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,119
there is a link on the project website

1176
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,960
the galileo project at the harvard

1177
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:12,240
university and

1178
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:15,280
um and and that will

1179
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:18,240
you know establish the path for father

1180
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,520
communications and

1181
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,280
you know i can address the question of

1182
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,200
what's best depending on the person that

1183
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,200
approaches us

1184
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,280
i'd like to follow up avi stephen had a

1185
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:29,760
question about if uncontrovertible proof

1186
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,000
is

1187
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,079
found will the galileo project

1188
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,000
potentially try to communicate

1189
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:37,280
with any uaps that's a very good

1190
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:37,760
question

1191
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:43,599
haven't yet decided on but

1192
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:45,839
i wrote a scientific american essay that

1193
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:46,720
was not yet

1194
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,319
posted on this question of how to

1195
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,520
respond and what to do and of course

1196
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,520
in my view the first thing to do is

1197
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,200
passively detect

1198
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,760
what the uap is doing what that object

1199
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,200
is doing

1200
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:04,079
what kind of information is it seeking

1201
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,480
and

1202
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,720
that could give us a hint as to what the

1203
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:08,240
intent of this uap

1204
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:10,000
is you know if it's indeed from an

1205
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:11,599
extraterrestrial origin what

1206
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:14,880
kind of information is it trying to get

1207
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:17,680
and then of course you can monitor how

1208
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:20,319
this object responds to what we do

1209
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,119
unrelated to the object like if we do

1210
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,040
some activity the object responds in

1211
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,040
some way

1212
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:29,280
and finally you might want to engage

1213
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:30,400
with it but

1214
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,680
that's i think the last step because

1215
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:35,440
you don't want to get into a situation

1216
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:37,040
of a confrontation without

1217
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:40,480
a good reason okay and it may well be

1218
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:40,960
that the

1219
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,599
intentions are all good but it's not

1220
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,520
clear it could be a trojan horse

1221
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:47,599
something that looks innocent that

1222
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,000
serves a a different purpose and

1223
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,680
you know the only way to find out the

1224
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:53,200
intent

1225
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:56,319
would be to use our own computer systems

1226
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:58,319
ai that will help us interpret the

1227
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,520
intent sort of like

1228
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:02,160
relying on our kids to tell us what the

1229
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:03,920
meaning of content that we find in the

1230
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:05,280
on the internet you know because they're

1231
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,880
more computer savvy

1232
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:09,680
so we rely on our computer systems to

1233
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:12,240
figure out their computer systems

1234
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,839
um it will be a race of ai systems so to

1235
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:16,960
speak

1236
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:20,000
um i i look forward to that if it

1237
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,359
happens you know it would be really

1238
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,040
challenging and exciting to see if

1239
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:25,440
our ai systems can figure out their ai

1240
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,560
systems

1241
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:28,960
but for now we are not there yet we we

1242
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:31,520
still have to see if we find something

1243
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,800
you know like an extraterrestrial object

1244
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,240
yeah i'm sure it would be a very nice

1245
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,160
problem to come across and

1246
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:40,000
to follow up on that another question

1247
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,440
from ebenezer

1248
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:44,000
if you did manage to come across what

1249
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,280
what would essentially be

1250
00:44:48,710 --> 00:44:47,119
potential evidence or proof of

1251
00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:48,720
extraterrestrial life

1252
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:51,240
whether that is living or one of these

1253
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:52,400
extraterrestrial

1254
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:54,079
technological relics you could

1255
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:55,520
potentially pick up

1256
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,359
what would the process be as a private

1257
00:45:01,990 --> 00:44:59,680
organization to get that information out

1258
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:02,000
because surely if if you are there and

1259
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:03,680
you know whichever room it may be

1260
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,599
and you you find out you could tweet

1261
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,720
that straight away

1262
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,119
you could be on your facebook but i

1263
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:11,440
imagine there are other organizations

1264
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:13,359
and government that would want to know

1265
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,720
first is that something that would have

1266
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:16,079
to come into your thinking

1267
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,920
well i think it's just like any other

1268
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:19,760
scientific discovery right

1269
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:22,000
you can ask what's the protocol uh it

1270
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:23,599
depends on the implications right it

1271
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:25,280
depends on the context

1272
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:29,200
um very often scientists

1273
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,240
find something and decide about a press

1274
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,400
conference and present it

1275
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,640
i obviously what you would like is for

1276
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,640
me to bring the piece of equipment

1277
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,640
and show it to you right that's what

1278
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:42,480
yeah but um

1279
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,480
uh it really depends on what we find you

1280
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:47,040
know it's like a fishing expedition we

1281
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,200
send the hook and we don't know what the

1282
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,520
what kind of fish we will catch

1283
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,640
and depending on the fish uh you know

1284
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,480
i will give you different different

1285
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,880
answers and if the fish seems to be

1286
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:01,280
extremely exotic

1287
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:04,000
you know and and looks very colorful and

1288
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:05,839
behaves in ways that are

1289
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:09,040
really amazing it may have to involve

1290
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:10,480
the government i don't know

1291
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,720
but otherwise you know my natural

1292
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,240
tendency is to say

1293
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:15,680
you know we're doing a scientific

1294
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,599
experiment we're collecting the data in

1295
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,599
an open fashion

1296
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:22,160
doing an analysis that is transparent

1297
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,040
you know we'll just

1298
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:25,440
share it i mean i don't it's not about

1299
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:26,880
us you see that's the thing

1300
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:29,119
people very often attack me personally

1301
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,640
it's not about me

1302
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:32,640
it's about the future of humanity if we

1303
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:35,200
have found evidence like that

1304
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:37,200
it will change the course of history it

1305
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:39,839
will have a huge impact on society

1306
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:42,560
so the conclusion from that is first we

1307
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:44,000
should never abandon

1308
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:45,520
this search because it has huge

1309
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:48,160
implications in my book extraterrestrial

1310
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:48,720
i call it

1311
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,760
omoamwa's wager so if a muammar turns

1312
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,800
out to be

1313
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:55,040
of artificial origin you know that has

1314
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:56,960
huge implications we can't ignore that

1315
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:58,079
possibility

1316
00:47:01,990 --> 00:46:59,680
so that's the first thing we should do

1317
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:02,000
the search and of course the second

1318
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:02,960
thing is

1319
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:05,760
you know that it's not about us because

1320
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:06,319
it will

1321
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:09,839
have a huge impact on on everyone uh

1322
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,240
it's

1323
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,920
you know it it will change the way we

1324
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:15,760
perceive our place in the universe it

1325
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:16,319
will

1326
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,760
change the way we interact with each

1327
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:20,240
other you know a lot of human history

1328
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:22,640
is shaped by people trying to feel

1329
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,520
superior

1330
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,599
relative to other people there was even

1331
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,680
a war called the second world war which

1332
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,280
was initiated by

1333
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,400
racist agenda by the nazi party

1334
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:34,240
that they are superior relative to other

1335
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,599
human beings

1336
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:37,040
but if you think about another

1337
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,280
civilization being far more advanced

1338
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:40,880
than we are

1339
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,359
then all of this is ridiculous you know

1340
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,200
how can you feel superior relative

1341
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,599
to another member of the human species

1342
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,599
just based on the color of their skin

1343
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:52,160
or the or the ethnic origin if there is

1344
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,680
something out there that is

1345
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:55,680
far more superior than you are the first

1346
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:57,760
thing it teaches you is modesty

1347
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,839
and second thing it teaches you is that

1348
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:01,359
all of your previous concerns

1349
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:05,119
are completely irrelevant you know yeah

1350
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,880
and that that leads me over just before

1351
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:08,400
we wrap up i want to ask you

1352
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,440
um this organization the project the

1353
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:13,520
galileo project do you see it as an

1354
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,960
american effort

1355
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,800
given your location and the people

1356
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:18,800
involved or do you want to get people

1357
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:19,200
from

1358
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,720
all around the world the scientific

1359
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:22,480
community involved

1360
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:24,559
all over the world i think it's a

1361
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:26,240
project of humanity

1362
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,599
you know and the idea i was asked once

1363
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:31,040
how do i define

1364
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,880
an intelligent culture intelligent

1365
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,040
civilization my definition is

1366
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,800
a culture that follows the guiding

1367
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,160
principles of science

1368
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,280
meaning cooperation and sharing of

1369
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:44,160
evidence-based knowledge and you know

1370
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,720
there are two

1371
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,640
elements to it one is cooperation and

1372
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:48,000
sharing and the

1373
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,599
second is evidence-based and

1374
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,119
of course what we are trying to do in

1375
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:55,440
the galileo project is evidence-based

1376
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:57,839
and what you asked about is cooperation

1377
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,800
and i say

1378
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,800
definitely because that's the guiding

1379
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:02,880
principle of science we want everyone to

1380
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:03,920
be involved

1381
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:06,880
irrespective of where they are of course

1382
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:07,520
unless

1383
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,800
this uap belongs to some foreign country

1384
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:12,960
you know that country might not want us

1385
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,119
to reveal that just before i ask my

1386
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:18,640
final question avi

1387
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:21,839
dan has got one for you so this is on

1388
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,559
on a bit of a lighter note um i love

1389
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,400
going outside and looking at the stars

1390
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:27,839
at night and sometimes listening to

1391
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:28,800
music

1392
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:30,000
and i wondered if there was this

1393
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:31,520
particular piece of music that you'd

1394
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:32,800
like to listen to

1395
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:36,319
when you do the same well i enjoy very

1396
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:36,880
much

1397
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:40,960
classical music especially

1398
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:44,720
bach and mozart and but i also enjoy

1399
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:45,760
very much

1400
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:48,000
the the latest music you know like the

1401
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:49,440
most modern that

1402
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,960
my daughters like and then um

1403
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,680
in fact uh just a few weeks ago i was

1404
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,520
interviewed by

1405
00:50:01,349 --> 00:50:00,720
22 years old the pop singer named king

1406
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:01,359
princess

1407
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:03,760
and we pretty much agreed on everything

1408
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:05,920
uh i checked her out she wanted to speak

1409
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:06,640
with me

1410
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:08,559
the claim was that i'm her favorite

1411
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:11,040
scientist so i said okay and i checked

1412
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,319
her out and

1413
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:14,720
you know i liked her songs very much and

1414
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:17,040
we discussed extraterrestrials and

1415
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:19,520
you know i pretty much feel the same as

1416
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:20,720
when i was a kid

1417
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,359
you know that i i haven't changed much

1418
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:25,760
if you ask people that knew me back then

1419
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:26,160
uh

1420
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,200
and i find the science to be

1421
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,440
uh a privilege to maintain your

1422
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,440
childhood curiosity

1423
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:35,440
and basically behave like a kid let's

1424
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,280
let's not pretend we know more than we

1425
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:39,119
actually know

1426
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:40,960
you know and and let's figure it out

1427
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:43,680
ourselves you know collecting new data

1428
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,160
finding what the reality teaches us and

1429
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,160
we might get bruised you know we might

1430
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,880
have the wrong ideas sometimes but we

1431
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:52,000
should be modest

1432
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:54,079
it's not about us i'm not aiming to get

1433
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,079
any prize not getting to get

1434
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:58,559
more revenues on my book it's really

1435
00:51:03,190 --> 00:50:59,520
about

1436
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,200
finding what reality is and avi

1437
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,599
final question before you go when

1438
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,440
realistically with the setup you have

1439
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:09,520
with the funding you have currently

1440
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:12,079
when do you have a gut feeling and i'm

1441
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,440
asking a scientist this

1442
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,000
that you could initially have some sort

1443
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:18,000
of results do you put a time limit on

1444
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:18,880
that

1445
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:22,720
start having some useful data

1446
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:24,800
and it really depends on how quickly we

1447
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:27,040
buy the instruments probably within

1448
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,800
uh weeks or months from now

1449
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:33,440
and then we will have to test them and

1450
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:36,079
then eventually place them

1451
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:38,800
but i i think it's a matter of a year

1452
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,760
before we will

1453
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:41,280
get to the point where we can start

1454
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:42,800
assembling data and

1455
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:47,440
uh we might get some interesting data in

1456
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,200
avi it's been wonderful having you on

1457
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:51,200
the podcast again and i look forward to

1458
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:52,880
the galileo project producing some

1459
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:54,800
results to excite everyone

1460
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:56,400
and look forward to future updates from

1461
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:59,280
you thank you so much

1462
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,359
that is all for this week's show thank

1463
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:03,040
you very much for listening

1464
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:04,880
please remember to leave the podcast

1465
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,040
review on your chosen platform

1466
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,760
you can like retweet and subscribe that

1467
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,760
would all be very much appreciated

1468
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,200
the shows are being uploaded onto

1469
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,200
youtube as we speak more and more

1470
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:17,200
you can sign up at patreon.com forward

1471
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,520
slash that ufo podcast to access

1472
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:21,760
shows ad free as well please get in

1473
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:24,079
touch on twitter facebook instagram that

1474
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:25,520
ufo podcast

1475
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:29,359
of course on twitter it's at ufo uap a.m

1476
00:52:58,829 --> 00:52:31,520
and again folks as always keep looking

1477
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:01,650
is

1478
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:12,069
i can't imagine how it could have been

1479
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:40,720
i jump back nearly

1480
00:54:09,990 --> 00:53:49,960
[Music]

1481
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:10,000
is

1482
00:54:26,490 --> 00:54:36,829
[Music]

1483
00:54:36,839 --> 00:54:40,150
is

1484
00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:42,640
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

1485
00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:50,829
[Music]

1486
00:55:02,710 --> 00:54:53,140
saucer

1487
00:55:32,829 --> 00:55:07,670
it's very clear

1488
00:55:32,839 --> 00:55:37,900
yes